Is there a "Public Release" date for phpRaider?

[Beebob]

Has it been decided when phpRaider will be available to non-charter-members?

Best Regards
Beebob

[Marticus]

bump

[Jorah]

I'm charter and still waiting on a working version.

Doesn't appear there is any priority to finish the product, even with paid support. The beta and RC versions are quite incomplete, and require too much tweaking to even get basic operations to work. So those versions are still not useful to my guild. Since most of the key functions don't work well.

I am with you though. Hoping there is a response to releasing a working version, soon.

[Adric]

it does seem like developement has stalled (I still believe that RL comes first) but would like to know a status update on where we are in the path to a final release, and what else is going on...

as to issues, the only one I have is that nothing is being created on the right date... othere than that, it all seems to work fine...

[milali]

ouch made ppl pay and didn't deliver....

[Jorah]

@Adric: Which version you using?

The last near working version my guild tested out was the last beta, before RC1. RC1 ....I can't even begin to list the problems I have with that. The whole "modules" idea was not working when we last tested it. That included errors with registering, not able to create characters, which in turn meant no sign-ups. So we abandoned it. It was clearly incomplete.

I'd say the character creation is quite major. The first version didn't even *have* that. I can't even believe that was beta, and it was unusable.

Anyway, don't mean to rant or complain. But yeah, charter is DEFINITELY not worth it. The community received much more updates and support when it was free. And that ...is a fact.

[shadowwolf]

I have to agree, I too have been disappointed, but what can you do?

In all honesty, we've all paid for something we may have felt after wasnt worth it, I think thats part of being a consumer unfortunately :P

I think the problem here is hes working on this alone for the most part which at this point in the system's popularity is probably not the best idea. Im a big supporter of RL coming first and at the same time, he deserves some enjoyment from WoW as well so time has to be budgeted for that. If the schedule is anything like mine, that doesnt leave a whole lot of "in between" time to work on a major undertaking such as this.

Id seriously suggest soliciting help from others to speed up development. Theres plenty of folks who have lent suggestion and code so far on the forums to allow us all to get the older versions working for all the changes that came about in BC. Might be a good idea to "open source" the development of this more as its clearly hit a stall for one reason or another and that might be what it needs to infuse new life into it again.

At the moment, im using a heavily modified version of the old system to account for Draenei and Shaman, yes it could be better but it works for what we use it for so im not hot and heavy about getting this new one up ASAP. Id prefer to sort out the bugs and get it all working before making the jump and at this rate its probably going to be some time for that.

[SpiffyJr]

I guess I haven't been as vocal as I should have been. I've been very busy with school lately (graduating soon, trying to find a job, etc). To top it off I was puking and had diarrhea for nearly an entire weekend. Come tomorrow I'm going to be working on getting a new version out for the weekend. Sorry for the lack of updates.

[Jorah]

Shadowwolf is right then: find some help. No one is demanding you drop your RL for this project, but its a bit unfair to let the project go idle after you've started collecting donations.

Open source it, or bring some of the many talented folks around here on to the project. Alot more could get done, without taxing anyones RL weekends or graduations. No big deal.

[SpiffyJr]

Shadowwolf is right then: find some help. No one is demanding you drop your RL for this project, but its a bit unfair to let the project go idle after you've started collecting donations.

Open source it, or bring some of the many talented folks around here on to the project. Alot more could get done, without taxing anyones RL weekends or graduations. No big deal.


I've been collecting donations since day one and I've had development stalls since then as well.

[BDC Thoram]

I gotta say something here.

In all honesty, we've all paid for something we may have felt after wasnt worth it, I think thats part of being a consumer unfortunately

even with paid support

I think that those people that feel this is a "Paid Product" need to go back and re-read what their DONATIONS went for. This isn't a company or a professional establishment. There are no time frames listed, nor any contractual obligations on either side. It's purely a donation to help support a freelance, freeware product. We're not consumers, and Spiffy isn't a vendor.

The Charter Membership States

http://www.phpraider.com/new_site/index.php?page=10

So lets see; Advance Beta Access? Check. Access to Charter Members area? Check. Sweet Badge by my name? Check. Able to discuss things in the private area? Check. Support in English? Check. Free install once a year? Haven't asked yet, but check. Free Upgrades? Haven't asked, but check.

Look, I made multiple donations to this project myself on top of donating for a charter membership. I also knew what I putting my money down for: The hopeful development of a Freeware product. Spiffy is under no obligation to provide anything to us per say - if he packed up and closed shop tomorrow then so be it. I don't think thats the case or I wouldn't have put funds forward, but if he is not able to deliver in the time frame you deem necessary don't ride his back - he's doing the best he can. If you want something that is a tangable, commercial product, this type of venture isn't for you. (Sorry Spiffy, I am not trying to push people away from you). I will contiune to invest in development for two reasons:

1. I see it as a long term, functional product
2. I am still using the PHPRAID, which was free of charge also.

Sorry if you don't see my side of it, but I think its unfair to say this is a "paid product and we're not getting the service we paid for" Keep in mind 99% of the Mods for WoW lose support within 6 months....This project is still kicking.

BDC Thoram

[Jorah]

Calm down. No one is assuming this is a paid product. It doesn't change the sentiment at all for those of us who have donated to this project in the past, and seen MUCH MORE project updates than we are seeing with chartered "donation" support.

It doesn't change the fact that development has been stalling for quite some time. Charters are just what you claim BDC: donations to help ensure that the project stays active and continues development. People have invested in this project. No one likes to see their investment sit idly, or worse, go to waste on something that isn't productive.

Closing the project down for lack of time to work on it is common. Stalled production on a project the community is financially supporting can cause said community to feel they are donating to someone's pocket. I'm not saying that is what is happening AT ALL. I'm saying you can throw the name "donations" around all you want and it won't change the perceptions and sentiments of the community which is financially supporting the project. Take it for what it's worth.

@Spiffy: It sounds like you have fears about open sourcing it and bringing help on the project. It is a worthy suggestion, I think. This project is a bit overwhelming for you right now. Nothing wrong with finding other able hands to help continue its development. Especially since it has great potential across game genres. The project could go farther than you think, if you simply allow it to grow.

But if you aren't willing to bring on more help, and you want to keep the integrity of your Charter program sincere, it'd be prudent to release a version of the software, or risk losing many from your community.

I've been following phpraid for a year and a half now, fondly supporting it through usage, promoting it to friends, and now financial donations. And this project is in the saddest state I've seen it in yet as far as active development. Me and all my friends have all but practically abandoned it, and started using gsDKP. Unfortunately, gsDKPs sign-up system isn't as robust as phpraider....but it will be eventually. The project is extremely active and *working* upgrades are made on it regularly.

That's where me and my friends have been donating lately.

[shadowwolf]

I think that those people that feel this is a "Paid Product" need to go back and re-read what their DONATIONS went for. This isn't a company or a professional establishment. There are no time frames listed, nor any contractual obligations on either side. It's purely a donation to help support a freelance, freeware product. We're not consumers, and Spiffy isn't a vendor.



Hold the phone BDC, you are mixing my words. This is a product, be it paid or free, its a product. As a supporter, more so paying supporter we are saying that the donations that we give are to help maintain and keep the project going. Taking donations for a product development is for things like web site hosting fees, that bottle of Jolt Cola for those late night coding sprees and various other things that relate to the project for which the donations are made. Its a way for the community to help maintain a project so that the costs associated with do not cause stress or strain on the developer(s) so they can focus more on the product.

I never said its a paid for product and demand something for my money. In fact, no one here said that, you inferred it. My comment is simply that we all give money to causes or purchases that may or may turn out to be something we deem not worthwhile later down the road, its part of being a consumer. That is what we are, regardless if this is a paid product or not, we are consumers as we use it. Some of us feel we are donating to a project that isnt going anywhere and since the Membership fees are yearly, that feeling will inevitably lead to a lack of renewal for those individuals. Yes its only $18.00, but wouldnt you much rather spend that money on something that you get better use from?

consumer (http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?o2=&o0=1&o7=&o5=&o1=1&o6=&o4=&o3=&s=consumer&i=0&h=0#c): (noun) - a person who uses goods or services



The Charter Membership States

http://www.phpraider.com/new_site/index.php?page=10

So lets see; Advance Beta Access? Check. Access to Charter Members area? Check. Sweet Badge by my name? Check. Able to discuss things in the private area? Check. Support in English? Check. Free install once a year? Haven't asked yet, but check. Free Upgrades? Haven't asked, but check.


Alrighty, thats fine, and we all understand that, no one ever said we expect a daily update schedule, but...

Free Upgrades?

Thats the key aspect of Charter Membership in question. Its part of the promises made for those of us who donate for charter membership and frankly, thats what we aren't seeing much of if at all. All of the updates to phpraid I have gotten over the past 6+ months have been from others in the community or my own doing, not here. I think thats the most frustrating part that Jorah is trying to convey as well, we aren't seeing much progress. Yes the upgrades are free, but we haven't really gotten any.

Spiffy, Im not knocking you, please dont think that and I commend you on an awesome product that you have created and still strive to create. That is not in question at all, but some of us are just disappointed in the development cycle of this product and we want to help. Im sorry you feel like hell, but I think you should seriously consider open sourcing this more so it can become even better than what it is now. Even if its just having a few people code some small aspects of it, it will take those portions off your plate and allow you to focus more on other specifics.

Take this forum for example. SMF is a great forum, Ive been using it when it was in its way early stages under another name of Yabbse, but it wasnt created by 1 person, it was a team of people. If you're afraid of losing the project if you open it up more in development, thats not going to happen, youll still be credited for the concept, origination, and overall direction of it. However at the rate things are going, keeping it the way it is, you might lose the project more quickly as users will flock to other solutions and there are more popping up regularly.

Just my $0.02, take it for what its worth.

[BDC Thoram]

I never said its a paid for product and demand something for my money. In fact, no one here said that, you inferred it.

Yes I very much inferred it, and I think that if you really went back and took a look at what was typed, it's very easy to inferr that. Honestly shadow, your post was probably the last one I felt was a dig. Don't listen to me tho - I am just one person. Maybe I am the only person that read it that way - doubtful but maybe so.

I think the last posts from you and Jonah are much more in tune with your thoughts than the previous ones. Anyhew - no need to derail this much more.

[cypher]

I posted into another section and eventually found this thread here. My feelings are the same as Jorah and Shadow. This is not a knock. I find and will continue to find phpRaid and phpRaider a superior product. The best feature of this product is the ability to download it, install it and tweak it to make it "your own". Your colors, your template and your look and feel to match your site. You don't get that with something like gsdkp.

As far as I can see it, I will continue to support this product, but also do not see any downside to engaging a number of talented PHP coders who use this product or frequent this site. Although the downloads themselves may have a few bugs, etc, all it takes is a review of these very forums to find a solution. Awesome! The people finding these solutions are ones that know enough (if not more) to make snipets here and there work.

I can see going "open-source" may not be the ideal situation, especially to the author who created this baby from scratch. I can see the possible Open-source, someone reverse engineers it and steals it, but it's not like nobody can't do it now anyway since we get the entire download of PHP code/MySQL schemas. I see benefit in commissioning some help if need be. At the end of the day, phpRaider is what's going to be living on our site. Down at the bottom, it's always going to say SpiffyJr.

[SpiffyJr]

@Adric: Which version you using?

The last near working version my guild tested out was the last beta, before RC1. RC1 ....I can't even begin to list the problems I have with that. The whole "modules" idea was not working when we last tested it. That included errors with registering, not able to create characters, which in turn meant no sign-ups. So we abandoned it. It was clearly incomplete.

I'd say the character creation is quite major. The first version didn't even *have* that. I can't even believe that was beta, and it was unusable.

Anyway, don't mean to rant or complain. But yeah, charter is DEFINITELY not worth it. The community received much more updates and support when it was free. And that ...is a fact.


phpRaid(er) has always and will always be free.

[diggory]

Im sorry BDC but i do not agree with you. I discovered this site and product only a few days ago and if you read the section of the site that advertises charter membership, then you should see its worded in such a way that implies a service is being offered for the money your paying for. IMO it doesnt imply your donating and MAY get this service because of the dontation.

I read it as i was paying for a product and support service. Im not happy thus far because i cannot get the product(phpRaider) to work and have received no decent support from my thread on the forum. However im not going to be totally anal about it because i realise this product is still somewhat under testing (should still be beta) and is bound to still have bugs in it. I'll also admit im highly inexperienced with these type of things and i may have messed it up myself as my only web knowledge is limited HTML and as such i have asked Evillinux to install it for me - as charter membership should grant me?

However at the end of the day ive not received what i think ive paid for, therefore i will not continue paying. If my problems can be fixed and i can start using phpRaider as good as it looks on the demo then i will arrange regular donations and gladly support the project. Im not expierenced with these things, but i want to learn and im far from an idiot.

[SpiffyJr]

EvilLinux appears to be MIA. Send me the details of your webserver and I'll gladly install it for you. I need the FTP information as well as all the database information.

[diggory]

EvilLinux appears to be MIA. Send me the details of your webserver and I'll gladly install it for you. I need the FTP information as well as all the database information.


i appriciate the offer spiffy but id rather learn how to do it myself. ive follow your instal instructions word for word but still get errors so unless theres something missing that youve assumed people will know to do?

Id like someone to reply to my post on the support page with help!